Agmates

Thank Heaven for Professor Ian Plimer and some sanity on the subject of Climate Change and Emissions Trading Schemes.

It would be good to see some unbiased press and the electronic media cover the event, but I wouldn’t hold out much hope, with vested interests controlling the MSM.

I wish him well in his book release and his speaking engagement.

Love the line under his photo (Mining Club link above) :“Boy has the climate changed since I was a kid”. How true.

Sadly one of the options on the part ‘The downside Plimer says is great.’

* Is it an act of Russian roulette that only the wealthy Australians want to play?

Is that a lot of ordinary people that you talk to and you read in blogs and websites, seem resigned to an ETS.

Shows just how effective the propaganda industry has been, especially when it is Government sanctioned and paid for by the taxpayer.

But I was surprised by this:

A podcast on Radio New Zealand 4/9/2008, interview with Dr James Lovelock, from Cornwall.

Dr.James Lovelock was amongst the first of the Global Warming Alarmist.

Hear him tell the New Zealand listeners that there is no point in the
‘emission trading scheme for New Zealand.’

In the 1970’s, Lovelock’s worry about global warming led him to make dire predictions about what will happen:
“Before this century is over, billions of us will die, and the few breeding pairs of people that survive will be in the Arctic where the climate remains tolerable” - according to one of hie scenarios.

Lovelock is best known as the inventor (in the 1970’s) of the Gaia thesis, which views the Earth as a whole biological living being - as a form of religious belief.

Barry’s already gone over Plimer’s arguments - the link is above; but I summarise here.

1) Volcanic eruptions cause short declines in temperature due to darkening, as in “the year without summer” in 1815 following Krakatoa (I’m going from memory, apologies if I got wrong date/volcano). Volcanic outgassing is low compared to anthropogenic emissions.

2) Orbital wobbles take tens or hundreds of thousands of years to occur. Flares happen on a short term, random basis. Neither can explain a steady increase over a 30 year period.

3) This is referring to the urban “heat island” effect. This is well known and corrected for in the data by smoothing urban heat records with surrounding rural records and by looking at temperature change rather than absolute temperature (which shows much less urban distortion).

4) was there a point here? We can distinguish anthropological effects using carbon isotope measurements.

5) That depends what scale of “past variability” you use. Despite various howlings about Mann, there are a wide variety of past temperature reconstructions out there, and they all show this is the warmest we have been for 1000 years+. Yes, it was warmer when the dinosaurs were around. Is that a good guide for what will be good for humans?

6) Why is the information that sea levels can change by up to 600 metres taken as good news?

7) The oceans are already acidifying.

Is Professor Plimer arguing that we are making the planet return to “normal” by melting the icecaps and glaciers? this is cold comfort.

9) Extinctions are occurring at a rate unprecedented by anything other than a major meteor impact.

10) and we are using up the buffer as the oceans warm.

11) Wrong.

12) Also, chickens can’t come from eggs, because they produce them.

Sorry James you mentioned a link? But I can’t find it?

James Haughton,
Please forgive me for querying some of your answers to Ian Plimer’s list.

1)Natural CO2 levels. WE are constantly bombarded with the level of ~260ppm, yet studies done on leaf stromata concentrations of CO2, between 6800 - 8700 B.P. show difference levels of up to +60ppm (Wagner et al)

3)UHIE, well known and corrected for in the data by smoothing urban heat records with surrounding rural records etc. —-

A look at ’surfacestation.org’, and at the gallery of these stations,their positions and conditions, and read reports on Anthony Watts would indicate a lot of correcting and smoothing required to arrive at “valid” average temperatures.

5)Despite various howlings about Mann (indicating MBH98 and MBH Mk11).

From Wikipedia - because it’s cheap and available:
US Climate Data Center-

Summer 1936 US Temperature
82.1degF. - 84.4degF (The dustbowl period)
Hottest in 112year period 1895 - 2006

Australia:
Black Friday period Jan 1939
Melbourne various days:
43.8deg C - 110deg F
44.7deg C - 112.4deg F
45.6deg C - 114.1deg F
Black Thursday period Feb 1851
47deg C - 117deg F

11)Wrong?
The IPCC AR4 limited the natural radiation forcing to only solar irradiation, and yet the effects have been known for a number of years.
Ref:
Friis-Christensen and Lassen Svensmark
at least the door should be left open.

A nice easy to read interview with Roy Spencer
Team Leader NASA’s Aqua Satellite
In:
Sci Guy - Science blog, Houston Chronicle

on climate data and being a climate sceptic.

The irony is of course that you’d usually expect a video of Lovelock from his Giaia days to be getting a “What The…” Agmates award for sitting in circles in a forest chanting to the great earth giaia.

But no you’ll forget all that for the sake of a good headline

Have a great weekend Steve!

Matt

Ah MattB,

You can take the ‘mickey’ out on me, but you can’t take the Gaia out of Lovelock.

But of course you can expect some more interesting quotes from me, from the Gaia believers including Al Gore.
e.g.
Sir James Lovelock, in his book Gaia: ‘A new look at Life’, states that

“all of the lifeforms on this planet are a part of Gaia - part of one spirit goddess that sustains life on earth. Since this transformation into a living system the interventions of Gaia have brought about the evolving diversity of living creatures on planet Earth.”

Gaians teach that the “Earth Goddess”, or Mother Earth, must be protected from destructive human activity. It is this belief that fuels the environmental movement, sustainable development, and a global push for the return of industrialized nations to a more primitive way of life.

Ahmmmm.

G’day Steve,
On your posting on Origin, the following should be of interest to Brisbane residents and capital cities in general, followed by lesser populated areas

This months “Silicon Chip” Oct 2008 Publisher’s Letter by Leo Simpsom, talks on Smart power meters.

Headed “Smart power meters will jack up your electricity bill!” - makes for heady reading.

Leo Simpson did calculations based on the new meter’s PowerSmart Homes tariffs and found that his own power bill would increase by 43%, as the meter switches the tariff charges to match time of day and peak, off -peak and shoulder rates. This is before any emissions trading charges are included.

If can you beg, borrow or buy SC Oct 2008, this article is a good read, and does not appear to mention Climate Change. Now add the cost of Green Power and/or whatever the ETS adds to electricity costs.

Figures put forward from Ross Garnaut’s statement of a modest decrease in CO2 by 2010, recently nominated an increase of electricity of ~ 40%. The Greens and the CSIRO want a decrease of 25% CO2 by 2010, which would result in raising electricity costs even higher.

Smart power meters are about to be ‘rolled out’ in Sydney and other capital cities, soon maybe a meter box near you.

As always a bearer of good news.

J.

Jeff what does smart metering have to do with anything. It really only benefits people who can switch large electricity use to off-peak - so pumps, bores, maybe pool heating etc. It certinly was not more than a 5 minute back of the envelope job for me to decide I’m better off on my standard tariff over here in WA. Don;t you have a choice over there to use the smart tariff or not?

MattB,
#1 The article in Silicon Chip Magazine was written by the highly respected Leo Simpson.
The calculations where done by him using his electricity account as a reference.

#2 When installed, it is not an option to switch your tariffs, this is done automatically, depending on the time of day/night, the load on the grid etc. and is controlled by the electricity supplier, probably via data access on the line, similar to powerline delivered internet (my guess).
To make it clear and simple, the electrical supplier controls the tariff rate dynamically. If they have to buy more electricity from the grid at peak time, your tariff will probably go up to another rate - automatically. Conversely, if your wife wants to bake a roast cheaply, it would be more economical to do it during off peak times - 2:30pm or 1:00am.

The name PowerSmart Homes metering is not a brand name you buy at Dick Smiths or Harvey Norman, it is fitted by the electrical supplier as a replacement for your probably old eddy current meter, which you didn’t have a choice in either.

Not stated on the article, but it is now state of the art, the meter would be read remotely at the substation or electrical supplier’s HQ.

Now try that on the back of your envelope - you don’t have a choice!!

That was what I was asking Jeff… I know fully how smartpower works. Over here in WA I have a smartpower meter, but I have the choice to use their smartpower tariff structure, or stay on the old fixed rate per kwh tarif.

I guess that smartpower just charges you what it really costs them, so hopefully people will change some of there energy load to off-peak times… and save us all money by reducing need to expand capacity on the grid.

I may go to smartpower once I’ve had the chance to look at the rates with my solar power feeding back in to the grid… there may be a quid in it for me.. but I doubt it. I’m already frugal enough in my energy use to put country types to shame in the mansions…

Hi Sue,
You mean to tell us you can get paid for this?

GOllleee ( with a Gomer Pyle country accent)

Cheers J.